Hi Nav,
Welcome to the relax mailing lists! Please see below:
This will complicate your analysis, as you don't have orientational
> The situation:
> I have experimental data for R1, R2 and NOE at two fields (600 MHz and 800
> MHz) on a large protein kinase. As expected, i do not have data for all the
> residues in the protein sequence. on searching through Web, i have found a
> X-ray structure, which also have some parts missing, possibly due to poor
> electron density in those regions.
information about your NH vectors! Such information is essential for
the prolate and oblate spheroidal and ellipsoidal diffusion tensors.
You will need to read the relevant literature if this is not clear
(you can find lots of references in the papers linked at
http://www.nmr-relax.com/features.html#primary_refs, especially my
2008a paper at http://www.nmr-relax.com/refs.html#dAuvergneGooley08a).
relax does not currently have an algorithm to automatically place
> I learnt from RELAX that one can create
> spin system solely based on sequence and then attach protons to it or by
> using a pdb structure.
protons into the 'correct position' in 3D space. This just allows you
to say that protons are attached - hence you will have dipole-dipole
relaxation present. If you have a 3D structure without protons, you
will need to use Molmol, PyMOL, etc to add the missing protons
yourself prior to loading the structure into relax.
You really need to read more of the literature to understand the
> For model free analysis possibly, i would need a pdb
> structure (not entirely sure!); as i can see, an example in the manual
> illustrating without the use of the structure (page 103)
reason why. But you can perform a model-free analysis using the
protocol I developed which is hard-coded into the GUI. But you can
only use the 'local_tm' and 'sphere' models if no 3D data is present.
If this is not clear why, then you have a lot more reading to do ;)
This means that you have not specified the relaxation mechanisms.
> The problem:
> When i tried doing it by creating spin systems using amino acid sequence
> alone, the system never got executed. However, when i started doing it with
> structure as an input., it did run but then gave me an error message for all
> the spins as follows:
> for spins with all six data parameters:
> spin YYY deselected due to absence of any relaxation mechanisms
Note that if you are looking at 15N backbone data - importantly with
no 13C labelling - then two major relaxation mechanisms are present.
These are the dipole-dipole and CSA interactions. You will need to
tell relax that these are active, and what the physics for these
interactions should be. The reason why you have to do this is because
relax can be used for RNA, DNA, or organic molecules. And even in
proteins, this simple 2 mechanism relaxation may not always be the
case. For example 15N bb relaxation with 13C labelling, you have 3
direct dipole-dipole relaxation mechanisms, and you have to also take
interference into account. Or for natural abundance 13C CO relaxation
where only CSA relaxation is present. relax allows you to handle
these different cases.
Did you follow the tutorial in the relax manual about using the GUI
> and for spins with no data:
> spin YYY deselected due to absence of any data.
>
> the second one is understandable but not sure about the first one .
for model-free analysis, specifically the section on setting up the
relaxation interactions
(http://www.nmr-relax.com/manual/d_Auvergne_protocol_GUI_mode_relaxation_interactio.html)?
You can perform a full analysis using the protocol I developed. If
> To check whether something is wrong with the complete data sets,
> i created new data files for only first two residues with structural
> coordinates extracted for these two residues. In this case, the program
> worked well.
this is not clear what this protocol is, please see my 2007 and 2008
papers:
http://www.nmr-relax.com/refs.html#dAuvergneGooley07
http://www.nmr-relax.com/refs.html#dAuvergneGooley08a
http://www.nmr-relax.com/refs.html#dAuvergneGooley08b
For residues which have 3D data, you can perform this analysis. For
missing residues, you may have to use the concept of global model
hybridisation:
http://www.nmr-relax.com/refs.html#Horne07
This will allow you to combine the local tm models for residues
without 3D data with the results from the analysis with 3D data.
No, this is just an indication that you have not set up your active
> Questions from me:
> 1) Does that mean the absence of data for certain spins, loaded either from
> sequence or structure, causes this problem?
relaxation mechanisms in relax.
Yes, see above. But it would be much better if you use the 3D info
> 2) Can i do the whole analysis just by using the sequence.
that you already have, assuming that structure is correct.
Please read my 2007 and 2008b papers about this!
> 3) Does the software actually need minimum six values (R1, R2 and NOE at two
> fields) for this analysis or it can work with >= 3 values?
Again, my publications cover this and what the minimum is and why.
> As for some
> residues, i have < 6 data values. I am currently ignoring those residues
> with < 6 data values as i wasn't sure if model free analysis would be able
> to handle that.
But note that model m8, as I have defined it, has 5 parameters.
Therefore you will require minimally 5 data points.
This is also discussed in full detail in my 2007 and 2008b papers as
> 4) I am still unclear with the initialization of diffusion tensor. In the
> GUI mode the first row asks for The diffusion tensor parameters:
> I have tried to understand what is written in the manual, but i am not sure
> if i understood it correctly.
to why my protocol, which is what you are using when accessing the
relax GUI, requires no initial diffusion tensor. These papers also
explain the concept behind this protocol and the inversion of the
problem of simultaneously finding the interlinked global diffusion
tensor and spin specific internal motions.
One other very useful reference which contains the answer to all your
> Would you be able to guide/suggest me on this. Any suggestions from your end
> is highly appreciated.
questions (apart from the missing relaxation interaction setup) is my
PhD thesis which you can find at:
http://www.nmr-relax.com/features.html#primary_refs
I hope some of this information helps, but you do have quite some
reading ahead of you!
Regards,
Edward